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| Mirrors of the Abyss |
$19.99 |
| Average Rating:4.6 / 5 |
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I'm changing my rating of this a bit. I've been running a Mirrors module for a while now and it is a challenge. There are a lot of things that the PCs need to find or figure out that just don't present themselves as good oppertunites. We have a self proclaimed dungeon crawl that expects / demands a certain level of role play to happen in order for information to be found out, which takes time. But not to much time because then Eshe will just start to mess the with PCs.
I'd say my concerns are an 80/20 split. 80% of the issues I've ran into are the module and 20% are of my implamentation or interpratation of the mod.
For instance, there is a lot of information in the library that can possibly be gleamed by the PC's. But alas, not totally true, because again Eshe will just start to suck the air out. So then the PCs steal a few books, but good luck finding down time to read them or hopefully having someone who can read them.
I think the best examples of "things" that can be used against Eshe in the last battle are the paw, easy because it just drops in their lap. And the mirrors with the clown scenerio. Nothing else really presents itself in a manner in which you can give to the PCs without some serious hand holding.
So we ran 20 rooms, randomly chosen by dice rolls and maybe that was part of the problem. But there is this over arcing feeling that Eshe is supposed to be crazy but that never really comes out. Then her little apperances at the start of each room don't really feel all that meaningful.
I know I've mentioned before that the orginization is a struggle. Not having the items catagorized or linked is just...rough.
The finalt act feels heavy handed. It's either a battle with a Goddess in her own realm or a PC brawl of sorts. The battle with her is all but impossible without having things to weaken her, but getting things presented that can weaken her are not easy. No where did I see oppertunities to present her true names or really anything else of merit.
The artwork is amazing, the room descriptors are well thought out. The mod is too many pages without enough substantive information. Ultimately we scrapped trying to finish because it become not fun. I think I would re-work this a bit, instead of it being in the Abyss I'd probably look for some where with a little more flexibility as this felt very much railroaded.
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Creator Reply: |
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Hi Roy,
(This response is not in anger. The only proper response when one puts their art out there, is no response...but that's never been me. I get personally affected and a little hurt. I think changing your rating is a bit much.)
This adventure is written in the vein of earlier D&D. There is an ode to "Tomb of Horrors" right in the preamble, and quotes by Gary Gygax. Take the end of "Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth," for instance. A player has to break the bottom of the sarcophagi in order to find the tome. When I recently replayed that module as a 5E experience, my players did not come close to realizing that...but that's life! D&D is not a rollercoaster that stops off at every point of interest...It's a challenge akin to life, and "Mirrors of the Abyss" presents numerous and tantalizing pathways and treasures...but only if they find them. It's not on the author to handhold, nor the DM. Many times my players just "didn't think of something" and that's how the cookie crumbled. The adventure can be all the better for it as time goes on. I give the players numerous chances to find most items of interest (which is why there is not enough page real-estate to hit all of the organizational things you wanted).
When the players are in the Gallery/Library, they have time for numerous searches (and truly, it's up to the DM how long that period of time is, before Eshebala decides to asphyxiate them to move them along her gauntlet of doom). But it's a whole floor of dusty books, and yes, I wanted legitimate books for her realm--so they are mostly written in Abyssal. There are a few chances in the module to be endowed with Abyssal speech. Off the top of my head, there is the Key right in the beginning, and the runes during the river. If a party does not have access to Abyssal speech, I'd recommend that one of them is endowed with the key to allow it. Downtime in the game is also something the DM mitigates. Game time in general is something the DM can and should mitigate. The reason I wrote in "furtherances" is so the group would not infinitely foofer about. I never wrote that they wouldn't ever have short rests, and remember, short rests are an hour-ish. Though I do commend that you moved them along, as that take on it creates a constant feeling of anxious immediacy.
"The things that disarm Eshebala" are numerous, including many that the DM / players can add in with roleplay or creativity. There are both obvious and subtle hints. She may, or may not have a fear of clowns or Abyssal Sea Monks. Mirror Gremlins can be used against her. And then there is the huge list of official things (spelled out) that the group either does, or doesn't find in trashheaps and books, like her Truenames. This is not a "handholding" adventure. It's just as advertised, in that it's challenging, CHAOTIC evil (meaning that the players are gaming IN EVIL CHAOS). *They are supposed to be under the impression that they cannot kill her--they are outclassed from the start. They're Level 15's and she is a demigod on her own turf. It's a miracle if they DO kill her. Survival is the goal.
"Ran 20 Rooms" I am elated that you did. I think sticking with it that long says something. ;)
"Supposed to be crazy" ... "Little appearances" - Ummm...Oh, come on man, she's nutty-nutty-fruitcakes...The whole scenario is dripping with waning sanity. She abandoned her incestious demon spawn to a locked tower and tries to make players destroy her own problem children. She gets coquettish with them, in person, after it's spelled out by the flashbacks of her unraveling religion, just how bad that is. She tries to seduce one player and then pulses into a misshapen horror for a "love bite" that could take an arm off. One minute, she's infatuated and the next, she's murderous, and she has the gal to ask them to clean her temple for her! She left her domicile's rule in the hands of two rivals (the gold and silver fox kings). She bred demons with spiders to impress Lolth. She kidnapped a famous artist and absolutely ruined her (Bloody Marytha). She left the kidnapped Ivystone Inn family and inngoers in random places, including her temple, a pocket orchard infested with another entity and a stable full of vulpinthropic nightmares (she put their horses there!). She went through a "maybe I can learn magic" phase and created broken spells and scrolls, and left her steward in the scroll closet to die.
"The organization" - As I've mentioned before, I cannot provide all of that organization. One, I've spent 4 years producing this, and then 2 months updating it. I allocated time to more maps. Linking everything would be far more involved than you can imagine. We're talking days and days, because hundreds of items are able to be gained in several places. Lastly, the book was always designed to be a paper hardback. I always used printouts of the treasures and cut them into a stack that can be handed out.
*An alternative for digital players is to snapshot the treasures with the Windows Snipping Tool or a phone pic and quickly send through a message.
"Heavy handed" - I guess another "agree to disagree." One, not many classically-inspired adventures allow a way to face off with a nigh-unbeatable foe (I'm looking at White Plume" for one). Two, one of the only positive descriptions of Eshebala originally was that she was a "patron of the arts" and so she performs a play in which the players can steal her final line. The players can do so. many. things. in the final scene. They can bring forth Abraxxas and use the Prison of Zagig to imprison her! They can bring in Grult like a giant ghost mech! They can guide the revolting horde of garbage-heap demons that she threw away, to fight her. It's open to interpretation!
Thank you for the compliment on the artwork. Don't forget that almost every other treasure is illustrated, too. So much time, man.
I'm sorry that you feel that way. I don't blame you as a DM, but this book without a creative group of players just might not work out. Clearly, the content is there to play with, like proverbial play-doh, the experience can be sculpted into anything.
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As an avid reader of D&D modules and adventures, I admit I have a tendency to be a tad extreme when it comes to buying modules. But when I saw this I knew I had to get it, in fact it's what drove me to make an account here! Gorgeous artwork, a lovely tribute to modules like the original Tomb of horrors,(if you put the crown on do you still go blind? haha!), and wonderful and engaging characters. Combine that with some demon summoning mechanics, treasures and terrors galore, and a history that leaves you questioning who the true villian is, and you have an adventure that even Gygax himself would be proud of.
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Creator Reply: |
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Thank you for the kind words.
This is absolute nonsense, but it felt like I was channeling Gygax at times, and yet I'm still learning about his work today! |
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Mirrors of the Abyss contains a lot of violence (as most adventures do) and sexual innuendo and content as well as a healthy dose of torture and sadism. And why shouldn’t it? Eshebala is chaotic evil. Not just in classification. But in her actions as they are presented. If you’re not comfortable playing out some of these scenarios but still want to give the adventure a try, you’ll need to do some additional prep work ahead of time. But I contend that you may weaken the experience if you nerf this adventure too much.
Read more: https://www.nonzerosumgames.com/mirrors-of-the-abyss-by-ryan-durney-and-christopher-rush/
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Creator Reply: |
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Thanks so much for the review here, and the full review!
I can't tell you enough how satisfying it is to see other DMs "get it." I believe a trip to the Abyss would be totally unnerving--not something you could just stroll into and out of--and I think too many experiences liken other planes like the Abyss and the Hells to a video game stage.
I really appreciate the time you too to look it over.
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I love the cruel way it forces the characters to harm themselves for various reasons. It's harsh and tough. Love it!
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Creator Reply: |
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Thanks, Justin!
I appreciate it. |
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Pros:
- Incredibly detailed information, from lengthy descriptions to multiple investigative skill checks for lore and clues, and consequences for every success and failure.
- Dungeon chambers feature a variety of hazards, traps, monsters, role-playing, and puzzles.
- Chambers are self-contained, allowing you to pick and choose whichever chambers you like to craft your own custom deathtrap dungeon.
- Incredible 3D artwork throughout, showcasing various scenarios.
- An impressive d100 list of gods and demons that can hunt, hinder, or help the PCs in the hedge maze chamber.
Cons:
- Lacks proper battle maps.
- Overly cruel and manipulative to the PCs, including forcing them to self-harm or harm one another, and seemingly non-consensual sexual encounters.
THE VERDICT: “MIRRORS OF THE ABYSS” IS 260+ PAGES OF CHALLENGING, HIGH LEVEL DEATHTRAP DUNGEON DESIGN WITH AN ALMOST OVERWHELMING AMOUNT OF DETAIL, CONTENT, AND ARTWORK.
Full written Review: https://roguewatson.com/2019/06/02/dms-guild-review-mirrors-of-the-abyss/
Video Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGwmwFo4OQQ
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Creator Reply: |
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Mr Rogue,
I really, truly appreciate your review! You took the time to sift 260+ pages and I could tell you were intrigued by the sheer volume. I like the review a lot, even where we take our hits.
One thing though--I stand by my rendition of the Abyss as a place of true evil and corruption. I don't think chaotic evil places have been done a lot of justice in latter day D&D, imo. The evil should be cerebral and it should creep into even the best, most lawful characters and challenge their motivations in such a dark place.
I have had players deny and avoid the corruption (self-harm / betrayal) through great effort between roleplaying and dice, and they feel all the more heroic for that effort.
As for Eshebala's illegal intervention (the proposed non-consensual sexual encounter) it is written in such a way that DMs get to interpret that, per their group. Her brother, Daragor, should interrupt before anything goes down in the boudoir, unless your group would find such a moment as a priceless roleplaying chance!
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There is a collosal amount of love and dedication in this adventure and it's worth every penny, I note a few issues that you may find in my full review here https://youtu.be/-FfLbSq4odU but these are not insormountable and I'm hoping might be fixed in a future update.
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Creator Reply: |
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Thanks so much, Brad.
I hope you downloaded the update or picked up the hardback since you did this generous review. |
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The author put so much love, detail, and effort into this work and it shows. It is a VERY tough and challenging dungeon, but can be rewarding for the players and the DM. The artwork is top notch and immerses you into the setting. There is SO much replayability that it is encouraged to play it more than once. I plan on running a one-shot version of the game soon. Even if you don't plan on running the adventure, I'd recommend reading it. Loved it and can't wait to run it!
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Creator Reply: |
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Thanks so much for this review! I hope you had a good run of it. |
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Just by looking at the pictures I get an artgasm. With just a glance you can quickly realise that the authors have poured their soul in this amazing supplement. Everything feels unique when you read it and will fill your brain with inspiration and motivation to not only to DM this but also expand on it by writting your own details ( even if it is completly spectacular as it is). Just get it and run it for your players. You will not regret it. If by any chance you feel that this product is not what you thougt and you feel a bit sad, then proceed to your nearest mirror and look inside. You will not be able to think anymore "Insert evil laughter here".
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Creator Reply: |
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Thanks so much for your early support and this review. I hope you nabbed the update at some point. |
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It's obvious that this is a work of passion that has consumed countless hours of labor and love.
I've only read through a few sections at this point, and to say it is comprehensive would be an understatement.
Well done, Ryan and Christopher.
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Creator Reply: |
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Thanks very much. Besides getting this into print (hopefully forthcoming) all I ever hoped for was that someone would appreciate the time that it took.
I also really, really...really want to watch other people play it on Youtube. |
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I very much enjoyed playing the encounters in this book. They were very thought out the "simple" answer to encounters may end up with disastrous consequence; and rightfully so as you're not the first person to enter this realm as entertainment.
What I found amazing is the amount of effort that was put in to create all the unique items and encounter tables. On top of that each one of those has it's own backstory, reason of being, why it's there. The world building is there you don't need to worry about just having something generalized that you need to build upon, everything is very detailed in description and thought out.
Encounters are deadly if you don't treat them with respect. You need to use all your resources but knowing each time you use an item or daily it's something you won't have later; will I have enough to last to the end.
Even if you don't plan on playing this, looking at the art and reading about the world and its backstories is worth it.
Definitely great fun with a tight nit group of your friends.
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Creator Reply: |
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Thanks so much!
The devil (er, fiend) is in the details. :) |
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I was a 5-time player of this adventure and each of our play sessions lasted well into the wee hours of the morning because we just didn't want to quit. This dungeon tortures you in a way that makes you nervous that you will survive. I can honestly say that, all 5 times I got the feeling that anything could happen, and the chambers we repeated went down differently--not even close! Last time I played, for the first time, my cleric shifted into a righteous Exorcist and found the Throwing Pentacle right before we had to end Game Night.
I tried playing it tough. I tried playing it cautious and shamefully, a few times I backstabbed my fellow adventurers. It's like Hunger Games and Tomb of Horrors a little, but where Acererak had a master plan, Eshebala is a batsh** crazy serial killer. She deserves to die.
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Creator Reply: |
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She IS a serial killer who deserves to die! Haha.
Although, Plane 193 will be nothing but mist and haunted motes of earth without her. |
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