Close
Close
Advanced Search

Blood Hunter Class for D&D 5e (2020)
Quick Preview
/gs_flipbook/flip.php?xml=/demo_xml/301641.xml&w=500&h=324
Full‑size Preview
https://watermark.dmsguild.com/pdf_previews/301641-sample.pdf
AU Brushfire Relief Charity Bundles

Blood Hunter Class for D&D 5e (2020)

ADD TO WISHLIST >
PDF
$
Suggested Price $4.99

Blood Hunter - A Martial Class for 5th Edition Dungeons & Dragons

Often feared or misunderstood, and driven by an unending drive to destroy the wicked, blood hunters are clever, arcane warriors who have bound their essence to the dark creatures they hunt to better stalk and survive their prey. Armed with the rites of forbidden blood magic and a willingness to sacrifice their own vitality and humanity for the cause, they protect the realms from the shadows, ever vigilant to avoid becoming the same monsters they choose to hunt.

Harnessing the dark abilities granted by the use of hemocraft blood magic to enhance their combat prowess, these warriors hunt the wicked with blade and curse, sacrificing their own vitality to gain the upper hand and bring their quarry down.

This includes the Order of the Ghostslayer, Order of the Profane Soul, Order of the Mutant, and Order of the Lycan archetypes for the Blood Hunter class.


Author's Note:
This was my first homebrew class waaaaay back before DMs Guild first started, and I had a LOT to learn. Originally spawned as a handful of variant abilities I designed for Vin Diesel guesting on my D&Diesel one-shot to promote his film "The Last Witch Hunter" (in which I was given no context for his character other than the trailer), the internet was loudly requesting me to release what class he played. Needing to heavily expand upon those small features, I cobbled together my first attempt at this class with meager design experience and tossed it to the internet with a wince. A handful of years of iterations, and incredible amounts of very well-thought out feedback from the web later, I've learned so much more about fun design and balance... and I wanted to take a crack at redesigning this class from the ground up.

Deep consideration brought me to shift the secondary ability score focus from Wisdom to Intelligence, as the hemocraft magic was more arcane in nature, and there was little representation for an Intelligence-based martial class. Along with this came many changes to improve the ease of tracking abilities like the Crimson Rite, while adding some new features and utility to the class and its Orders (including the Brand of Castigation). Massive rebalancing has been applied throughout the class, and each Order eventually receives its own unique Blood Curse, as well as a unique modification to their Brand.

While the first release of any new design will have its problems, I feel much more confident about the direction of this class and its place in my games and world. I hope you enjoy this newly fashioned, improved release of the Blood Hunter! 

-Matthew Mercer


(P.S. If you would still prefer to use the older version, you are certainly welcome to do so! You can find it HERE)

 
 More from this Title's Contributors
 
 Customers Who Bought this Title also Purchased
Reviews (23)
Discussions (92)
Customer avatar
Brian K November 13, 2020 8:05 pm UTC
I've got a question regarding the usage of ranged weapons on a bloodhunter.
How does this work in combination with the crimson rites?
Does the rite transfer to ammunition?

One of my players wants to play a ranged bloodhunter and even after reading the documentation multiple times, we're still not sure how this works.
Could someone please explain this concept?
Customer avatar
Nick O November 13, 2020 8:17 pm UTC
PURCHASER
Short answer, the ammunition does the rite damage.

Here's a thread with more detail
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/rules-game-mechanics/16571-does-crimson-rites-apply-to-ranged-weapon
Customer avatar
Michael W November 13, 2020 10:17 pm UTC
PURCHASER
The Crimson Rite is applied to the weapon, in a similar fashion to an enchanted bow the ammunition deals the usual damage for the weapon plus the Rite damage. This also means when they get to 6th level they can use their Brand feature at the full range of their weapon (up to 600 feet!).

Be wary on what subclass they pick, if they go Ghostslayer you'll encounter the same head-scratching with their 7th level feature where they can occupy two planes simultaneously!
Customer avatar
Brian K November 17, 2020 9:00 pm UTC
Thanks guys! Both answers helped very much! :D
In this case it was going to be for an order of the mutant subclass, but was still struggling.
Thanks for the enlightenment!
Customer avatar
Aleksa A November 05, 2020 2:32 am UTC
PURCHASER
I have to say after finally revisiting Order of the Lycanthrope, I find that it's a lot worse than it used to be. Not because it's weaker, but because it removes the debuffs. I know it doesn't make sense, but the whole fun of Blood Hunter was how you would gain power at a cost, and removing the silver vulnerability and dropping the Wisdom Saves for holding back your inner beast to such a low number honestly removes the fun of playing that class.
Of course, I know I can always go back to the earlier editions, but I say this because I would really love to see this class as a whole further explored for the risk/reward class that it is in future updates.
I'm a big fan of the Mutagen upgrades, though. It's a lot simpler to play, but I think it lends itself to 5e a lot better than previously, and the drawbacks and strengths are considerably improved. Makes it a LOT more fun to juggle.
Customer avatar
Michael W November 05, 2020 7:06 pm UTC
PURCHASER
Here's where I might get in trouble, but if you're looking for something like the Order of the Lycan but with that power at a cost element still there, have a look at this: https://www.dmsguild.com/product/304790/Lycanthrope-Class-for-DD-5e-2020
Customer avatar
Paul A October 19, 2020 2:58 am UTC
PURCHASER
I made a Blood Hunter (Order of the Lycan) that's a Malarite. I'm very excited!!
Customer avatar
Nathan Z September 28, 2020 7:23 pm UTC
PURCHASER
I really need the new Warlock patrons added to the profane soul subclass
Customer avatar
Thomas W July 06, 2020 2:21 pm UTC
I just want to know why Blood Curse Mutual Suffering was removed, that was the best one.
Customer avatar
David E July 17, 2020 1:37 pm UTC
PURCHASER
I agree. It was definitely my favorite. I think overall the Blood Maledicts are a lot better (stronger, more thematically appropriate) now than they were, but I miss Mutual Suffering. I believe Matt indicated that he does have plans for it, though, so hopefully we'll get a version of it back in a future update.
Customer avatar
Travis V June 27, 2020 10:30 pm UTC
PURCHASER
I absolutely adore most of the changes to this class. The flavor feels pretty spot on now. I also really like how the changes to order of the lycan.

The only disappointing thing is the damage nerf to claws later on. Generally dual wielding (or equivalent) is very weak later on, and if you're using claws you're missing out on fancier weapon properties of powerful weapons like the Flame Tongue. Not sure why this needed a nerf, but at least you can always choose to use magic weapons instead.
Customer avatar
Michael W June 28, 2020 12:47 pm UTC
PURCHASER
I'd hardly call the claws "nerfed" when you're out-damaging the monk up to 5th level because of a larger damage die and then still doing it thanks to Feral Might until 17th level. Also with the way it's worded you can use your first attack with a weapon, then unarmed strike, and then bonus action unarmed strike; not to mention both weapon and your unarmed strikes can get the bonus damage from Crimson Right (which likely means you're out-damaging the monk even beyond 17th level), and the entire time you're doing that you've also got resistance and an AC boost to your armour.

Safe to say if the claws were stronger it'd be even more poorly balanced.
Customer avatar
Travis V June 28, 2020 5:42 pm UTC
PURCHASER
I wouldn't call it poorly balanced. As it is, the damage comes out "Alright" compared to fighters, paladins, and barbarians. It's better than monk, for sure. The problem is that monk is poorly balanced to begin with. Almost everyone who runs math on 5e agrees monk has the lowest damage output of the martial classes, so I wouldn't generally balance classes toward monk.

Even Wizards seems to acknowledge this, as both the Way of the Astral Soul and the Way of Mercy in their latest UAs offer MUCH larger damage bumps than previous monk subclasses.

Still, a loss isn't a big deal. ~3 damage a turn isn't going to make or break the subclass, it was just a fun thing to look forward to.
Customer avatar
Michael W June 28, 2020 8:56 pm UTC
PURCHASER
I wasn't balancing it towards monk, but showing how it outshines that class. Astral Monk is horridly balanced too, you can throw more d10s than a fighter can at next to no cost on your turn with that subclass; makes an excellent proxy for a Stand User though. I wouldn't say Monk is intended as a DPT class though, more a harasser/disabler thanks to the ability to easily stun/escape enemies.

The Lycan though turns all the weapons you wield into budget +3 magic weapons as well as making your unarmed strikes +3 magic weapons, gives you an AC bonus that stacks with armour, resistance like a barbarian, and you can couple all that with increased damage from Crimson Rite. Hell you'll be pulling more damage than a Barbarian whilst practically copying the Barbarian's main class feature (but still allowing you to concentrate and use magic). There's a lot more wrong with it besides this too.
Customer avatar
Travis V June 29, 2020 1:37 am UTC
PURCHASER
I don't really like arguing on the internet, so I'll just say agree to disagree. I don't think any of the math bears out here that Order of the Lycan's damage is "overpowered". I did math on all of the classes, sans feats, and Order of the Lycan's claws come out on bottom (equivalent to monk). Here's the data, if anyone's curious.

It's from level 18 when all classes get their final damage bumps besides capstone, uses +3 weapons for everyone as a baseline, and uses a 70% accuracy rate (attacking AC 21). It uses the old Bloodhunter claw damage of 1d10.

Bloodhunter (Lycan, using Claws)
Formula: (1d10 Claw + 1d10 Rite + 5 DEX + 3 Feral Might) x 3 attacks
Resolved: ((5.5+5.5+5+3)*0.7)*3 = 39.9 damage/turn

Barbarian (Berserker, NOT BERSERKING, only using Retaliation)
Formula: (1d12 greataxe +5 STR +4 Rage +3 Weapon) x3 + Brutal Critical 1/20 Chance x3
Resolved: ((6.5+5+4+3)*0.7)*3+(0.05*(6.5*3))*3 = 41.8 damage/turn

Barbarian (Zealot) ...See more
Customer avatar
Nick O June 29, 2020 1:47 am UTC
Hell yeah, gimme that DATA
Customer avatar
Michael W June 29, 2020 2:41 pm UTC
PURCHASER
For the Blood Hunter example you've neglected the ability to run using both claws and a weapon (same for the Monk, not sure why the accuracy is down there either).

Bloodhunter (Lycan, using Greatsword + GWF + Claws)
Formula: (2d6 Greatsword+3 + 1d10 Rite + 5 STR + 3 Feral Might) + ((1d8 Claw + 1d10 Rite + 5 STR + 3 Feral Might) x 2)
Resolved: ((8.33+3+5.5+5+3)*0.7)+(((5.5+5.5+5+3)*0.7)*2) = 43.981 damage/turn

Bloodhunter (Lycan, using Greataxe + GWF + Claws)
Formula: (1d12 Greataxe+3 + 1d10 Rite + 5 STR + 3 Feral Might) + ((1d8 Claw + 1d10 Rite + 5 STR + 3 Feral Might) x 2)
Resolved: ((7.33+3+5.5+5+3)*0.7)+(((5.5+5.5+5+3)*0.7)*2) = 43.281 damage/turn

So you're exceeding the damage of the Berserker Barbarian and exceeding the other, all whilst getting the same benefits as rage but with higher AC, the ability to cast spells and it can last much longer (hours vs minutes). Hell you're even matching a Hasted Paladin too and the only thing it's cost you...See more
Customer avatar
Michael W June 29, 2020 2:52 pm UTC
PURCHASER
Bloodhunter (Lycan, using Greatsword + GWF + Claws)
Formula: (2d6 Greatsword+3 + 1d10 Rite + 5 STR + 3 Feral Might) + ((1d8 Claw + 1d10 Rite + 5 STR + 3 Feral Might) x 2)
Resolved: ((8.33+3+5.5+5+3)*0.7)+(((4.5+5.5+5+3)*0.7)*2) = 42.581 damage/turn

Bloodhunter (Lycan, using Greataxe + GWF + Claws)
Formula: (1d12 Greataxe+3 + 1d10 Rite + 5 STR + 3 Feral Might) + ((1d8 Claw + 1d10 Rite + 5 STR + 3 Feral Might) x 2)
Resolved: ((7.33+3+5.5+5+3)*0.7)+(((4.5+5.5+5+3)*0.7)*2) = 41.181 damage/turn

Bloodhunter (Lycan with Str 20 and Int 20, using Greatsword + GWF + Claws, Brand of the Voracious gives advantage so accuracy is now 0.84)
Formula: (2d6 Greatsword+3 + 1d10 Rite + 5 STR + 3 Feral Might) + ((1d8 Claw + 1d10 Rite + 5 STR + 3 Feral Might) x 2) + (Brand of Castigation/Tethering x 2)
Resolved: ((8.33+3+5.5+5+3)*0.84)+(((4.5+5.5+5+3)*0.84)*2)+(10*2) = 71.0972 damage/turn

Bloodhunter (Lycan with Str 20 and Int 20, using Greatsword + GWF + Claws,...See more
Customer avatar
Michael W June 29, 2020 3:45 pm UTC
PURCHASER
On a final note as I just had a thought, even without the brand in that last example you're matching the damage of practically all those classes (against AC21 as with your examples it's 41.3 DPT without the brand) but the real kicker is that your AC is insane too. If you're assuming +3 gear then you're stacking: Studded Leather+3, a Shield +3, +5 from Dex and +1 AC from Hybrid form = 24 AC. The shield doesn't stop you from using your Predatory Strikes as they're just unarmed strikes (so kicks and bites work), so you're putting out damage that's only 0.5 less than a Barbarian but with much greater defence, as the Barbarian's AC is 18 (Unarmoured Defence Dex 16 + Con 20) with a great weapon. Same with the Fighter and the Paladin, both with Plate+3 would have an AC of 21; if either of these swap to Sword+Board instead of great weapons then their DPT drops below that of the Lycan Blood Hunter.
Customer avatar
Rian M June 30, 2020 3:00 pm UTC
I have yet to look over all the numbers, but I would like to point out that no one here has mentioned that Order of the Lycan is the only subclass in all of 5e to give the player vulnerability. This means, against a smart villain, you will drop faster than most other classes. Your crimson rite reducing your max HP, CON likely being your third highest stat (so it's unlikely to be terribly high, especially when using standard array), and the fact that you're always up front and personal. It basically turns you into a glass cannon.
Customer avatar
Michael W July 01, 2020 2:08 am UTC
PURCHASER
The Order of the Lycan doesn't give the player Vulnerability any more, besides that there's not anything in the MM that has silvered weapons so it'd only come up if the DM specifically tailored enemies to damage the Lycan of the group. In the event they had silver weapons you could (if you focused Dexterity like you can) just sit in the back with a Rite-d ranged weapon and take them out, or simply not use the Hybrid transformation to avoid the vulnerability (since it only used to apply when transformed not all the time).
Customer avatar
Travis V July 02, 2020 6:47 pm UTC
PURCHASER
The other numbers are all kind of fluid once you get GWM, reckless attack, polearm master, etc and all the feats in. I've definitely had a Fighter/Barbarian in our group cracking damage even higher than this on a regular basis, and single class paladins.

But the one thing I think can agree on is the AC is too high, and the Brand probably offers too much right now. Due to this mimicking Monk, I never even thought about strapping a shield on while still making claw attacks. Bleh. That both just looks silly and gives you a pretty crazy AC while using a "1 handed" weapon. And almost every "retributive damage" effect in the game right now either requires your reaction, occurs 1/turn, or the damage is VERY low (like the Battlerager's 3 pts of piercing damage).
Customer avatar
Michael W July 02, 2020 9:30 pm UTC
PURCHASER
With feats that GWM and Sharpshooter it actually works out with lower damage on average due to hitting less, and even with others they'll hardly compare to the Rapier+Shield+Dueling Lycan that's hitting 1d8+8+1d10 on hits (1d8+10+1d10 for the rapier) every turn after a one-time cost that can be recouped by 1st level cast of cure wounds (on average) as well as rocking resistance and AC 19 that's better than plate without any magic items.

So yeah, we can agree on the AC being borked and thus the balance trade-off most classes have to do between DPT and AC is also borked; as for retributive damage most also that aren't super minimal let the target take a save against it rather than taking damage and then saving or simply not getting a save like the Brand does.
Customer avatar
Layton S June 09, 2020 2:18 pm UTC
PURCHASER
One of my criticisms thus far is that while the Path of The Mutant does feel sufficiently "Witcher-Esque" I find the number of Mutagens they are given access to and able to prepare absolutely horrendous, at the very least it should line up with a wizards level 1 spell slot progression, or they should be able to prepare an amount up to their level or something of the sort. Like the class a lot though!
Customer avatar
Michael W June 09, 2020 2:42 pm UTC
PURCHASER
Played right those mutagens can break balance even when you use point buy for characters. 20 Str, Dex, or Con at 3rd level is insane since no one else can scrape higher than 17; getting even worse at 8th when you can have 24 Str, Dex, or Con with nary a significant drawback. Having 24 Str at 8th level means you're potentially stronger than everyone else in the game until the Barb hits 20th level and can match you.

It's likely the fact that they can be so game breaking that you only get 3 at most.
Customer avatar
Matthew C May 18, 2020 9:02 pm UTC
PURCHASER
So, I run a campaign in a sort of modern/sci-fantasy setting. Mostly, it resembles your typical fantasy setting, but modern tech appears every once in a while, and there's one faction in particular that's essentially a 'modern'/'futuristic' civilization (and a lot of the setting is about the interactions with this modern civilization and the more traditional fantasy civs).
I'm wondering, what would you suggest (mechanically and/or flavor-wise) for a modern/sci-fi blood hunter? Maybe a cyborg or something? What do you think?
Customer avatar
Nick O May 18, 2020 9:31 pm UTC
PURCHASER
I'm thinking biomechanical enhancements. They had a chip or some other kind of hardware surgically implanted in their brain/sounds/etc. Blood curses could be radio signals targeting a person for a ossicular effect based on the frequency.

Ghost Slayer: quantum tech that allows them to shift through solid objects (incorporeal creature could be flavored as beings talked in some sort of quantum) state.

Lycan: Hormone or Gene manipulation that they can activate to tap into a more carnal power.

Mutant: change the hardware's programming to empower certain aspects of their bodily functions. Or bionics like mechanized leg braces for more speed or hologram tech to appear more personable.

Profane Soul: they've got a corporation bankrolling them, supplying equipment and resources when needed through air drops/teleportation.
Customer avatar
Matthew C May 18, 2020 11:38 pm UTC
PURCHASER
Sorry, I should probably have clarified what I meant a bit better. I was wondering if anyone had ideas for a sci-fi/modern-themed blood hunter *subclass*.

My setting has magic and the like-it's less a sci-fi conversion and more "a modern 1st world nation dropped into a medieval fantasy world, interacting with those civilizations" (basically, human space travelers colonizing alien planets resembling medieval fantasy worlds). Most classes and subclasses are unchanged, though I have been hunting down and creating sci-fi/modern themed subclasses for various D&D classes. This modern civ tends to produce adventurers using said subclasses. For example, their monks use Gun Kata, their rogues have spy gadgets, their fighters use power armor, etc.

I am thinking this subclass would indeed be some kind of cyborg, and the damage they take using hemocraft and such would be flavored as their cybernetics being overlocked, which damages them and the user's body.
Customer avatar
Nick O May 18, 2020 11:41 pm UTC
PURCHASER
Gotcha, I've been thinking about a retro-futuristic style one shot and had that in my mind.
Customer avatar
Keith W May 10, 2020 2:11 am UTC
PURCHASER
For the Ghostslayer's Rite of Dawn, the weapon sheds Bright Light in a 20' radius. Is there any additional Dim Light shed beyond that radius?
Customer avatar
Robert W May 09, 2020 2:07 am UTC
Does this PDF have Order of the Lycan included?
Customer avatar
sean M May 09, 2020 10:12 am UTC
PURCHASER
yup, it's there
Customer avatar
Sebastian B May 02, 2020 1:50 am UTC
PURCHASER
Good book, very much worth $5+, let alone free, however I believe there's a minor typo on the first page, second paragraph. Shouldn't it be a grisly scene, not grizzly?
Customer avatar
Paul A October 19, 2020 3:04 am UTC
PURCHASER
Yep.
Customer avatar
Giorgos F April 10, 2020 9:09 am UTC
PURCHASER
I cant downloadit maybe the files is broken?
Customer avatar
Wil T April 05, 2020 9:25 pm UTC
PURCHASER
I made a FantasyGrounds module for this for one of my players, any chance you're interested in sharing it here or can give me permission to share it? If not, happy to keep it private.
Customer avatar
Eric T April 14, 2020 12:44 am UTC
Did you get an answer on this?
Customer avatar
Bradley B April 26, 2020 6:29 pm UTC
PURCHASER
Would also be curious about it, I have been having trouble coding it correctly.
Customer avatar
Jonathan D September 09, 2020 4:17 pm UTC
PURCHASER
This might be a long-shot, but any news on this? I've been trying, and failing, to import it myself into FG.
Customer avatar
Wil T September 24, 2020 4:10 pm UTC
PURCHASER
Sorry everyone, I didn't ever hear back here (or when I messaged the Critical Role contact email).
Message me on FantasyGrounds forum (bmos) and I might be able to help you get it programmed correctly :)
Customer avatar
Jacob P March 09, 2020 2:42 am UTC
PURCHASER
I loved the old blood hunter, but this new one feels sloppy, I'll stick with the old one.
Customer avatar
Paul A October 19, 2020 3:06 am UTC
PURCHASER
As a house rule, I'd allow the player to cast as a INT or WIS or CHA (if they are profane soul).
Customer avatar
Michael W March 03, 2020 8:37 am UTC
PURCHASER
I'm surprised at all the praise of this class, or more accurately the lack of criticism of it besides the wisdom-intelligence shift (and the one comment before mine). It's riddled with features that damage before the creature gets a save (or they don't get one at all), strong features with fast recharge times that guarantee you'll never be without them, features that do what other classes do but better, features that use little (bonus actions) to no (free actions) action economy, and features that have unlimited range/duration. It even undermines its own gimmick of using health by either reducing the cost of it to near 0 or giving you healing that counteracts the cost completely. Don't believe me? Check out my review that breaks the class down extensively.

Astoundingly bad, and yet glowing praise. At least anyone who paid for this mess donated to a good cause.
Customer avatar
Michael W March 03, 2020 10:12 pm UTC
PURCHASER
I'm unsure if you'll see this (since I can't see your reply) but thanks for the reply John L! Some points in response though:

"Crimson Rite is in line with the monk's weapon progression and on average deals a bit more damage than a barbarian's rage." - Both these two things are true but for Monks that progression is the standard damage die of their attacks, not an additional one. The Blood Hunter has their weapon's damage die plus the Crimson Rite damage die and unlike Barbarians can get that above average rage damage on Dexterity based attacks (including ranged attacks from up to 150ft away). Couple that with fighting styles and the Blood Hunter can out damage the Barbarian and the Monk from a comfortable range away.

"Blood Maledict while good, the fact that it is a core class feature means you will never be able to tank as you can be taking 4d10 points of damage between shorts rests; which is not negligible." - Untrue, the class is able to tank easily. Even if you...See more
Customer avatar
Nick O March 03, 2020 10:44 pm UTC
PURCHASER
I'm now 5 sessions into a new long term campaign as a BH and plan on going Mutant when we hit level 3, probably next session. I haven't noticed it being unbalanced compared to other classes in play so I'll keep an eye out for that as we get further along. In my experience, nothing is as unbalanced as it seems at first because play style tends to be the biggest determiner of class efficiency. Though you did get me thinking about how few of the features require saves. I can see how that can make the class more powerful. My only comment on your thoughts would be you get so few uses of your features and if you don't get the opportunity for a short rest then a lot of your concerns aren't as serious. In my campaign we haven't taken a short rest yet.
Customer avatar
Michael W March 03, 2020 11:27 pm UTC
PURCHASER
You're right about play style determining class efficiency; a 16 Int Eldritch Knight is going to be a better spellcaster than a 6 Int Wizard after all, which is why I tried to keep the examples in my review comparative ones where two classes are trying to reach the same goal be it damage per turn, tanky-ness, etc. The lack of saves for features or features that do auto-hit damage first and then save definitely contributes to the power level. The small number of uses only applies to your Blood Curses (and even then you get ways of gaining more), your Crimson Rite has no use limit other than health and lasts until you rest (keep a hand on your sheathed sword and the Rite stays).

It does depend on your campaign but if you're only doing one-two challenging encounters a day you're not running out of those features as you'll either maintain things like your rite between encounters or get chance for a rest in between; travelling as a group with a horse and cart for example means you could be sat in the back...See more
Customer avatar
Nick O March 03, 2020 11:43 pm UTC
PURCHASER
If you had control over balancing the class, do you feel it would need a complete re-write? Or just tweak everything i.e. increase the amount of damage you take for crimson rite, require saves for features, reduce the bonus for mutagens, etc?
Customer avatar
john L March 04, 2020 1:39 am UTC
PURCHASER
I deleted this comment a while ago due to issues with my wifi and am just reposting it. Sorry!

I went and looked at your review, and you made a few good points. There should be saves for the abilities, and the option to deal half damage on a success. I, however, do not agree with all you said about the class. For starters both the Crimson Rite and the Blood Maledict features are balanced. Crimson Rite is in line with the monk's weapon progression and on average deals a bit more damage than a barbarian's rage. Blood Maledict while good, the fact that it is a core class feature means you will never be able to tank as you can be taking 4d10 points of damage between shorts rests; which is not negligible. Next, your point about the Order of the Ghostslayers is not entirely accurate. This is the standard, improving on core features subclass, much like the Monk Way of the Open Hand. The improved Blood Maledict does not completely negate the negatives of using the feature (you are still taking damage), and...See more
Customer avatar
Michael W March 04, 2020 3:23 am UTC
PURCHASER
In response to Nick O:

If I was balancing the class it'd be a mix of both tweaking some features and a complete re-write of others. Considering my review is around 10k words I won't go into exactly how I'd balance it but I'm very tempted to give it a go and upload it here to see what people think.

In response to John L:

Ah it's alright, technical issues are pain. Take a look at the top post though as I responded to your comment (I had a full copy in the notifications section to work from) and addressed the points you raised.
Customer avatar
Samuel B April 03, 2020 4:14 am UTC
PURCHASER
So, interesting note. You wrote that the average self-damage per short rest at level 4 is 5HP, and the average at level 20 is 24HP. Using average HP as you’ve been doing, the difference between a D8HD and a D10HD at level 4 is 5HP. At level 20, the difference is 21HP. If you don’t take any short rests at all, so you only take the 5/24 damage once, you’re dealing enough damage to knock yourself from a D10 class down to a D8 class. Yes, the damage can be healed, but if you do then the party will be missing potions/spell slots that they’d still have if you’d been any other D10 class. Having DMed an original Ghostslayer through a 1-18 campaign I've got to tell you, they're much squishier than they look.
Customer avatar
Michael W April 03, 2020 11:44 am UTC
PURCHASER
Bear in mind though, that's only if you use all of your abilities in one fight, something that you'd rarely do or if you did you'd be more than likely resting afterwards; and if you're expected to be a front-liner then the party's healing is going to be used on your anyway when you take damage. Healing that's more often than not capable of recouping the damage you've taken plus the damage you did to yourself in one go (unless you've run into a horde of enemies like an idiot, but then that's on you). As I'll mention later it's often more beneficial to you to use that HP to gain damage, even if you don't get healed.

I ended up posting this review to r/dndnext and many people said the same about the old class, but this one is vastly different thanks to being able to simply heal away the cost of using your Crimson Rite or Amplified Blood Curses; the cost for which can be made almost immediately 0 with a single level dip into Fighter for Second Wind. Speaking of that reddit thread someone tried arguing...See more
Customer avatar
Samuel B April 03, 2020 3:52 pm UTC
PURCHASER
You could heal Amplified Blood Curses with the old one too; the Crimson Rite self-damage is the only change. The Ghostslayer I DMed for dealt with the old way with higher-than-average HP rolls, the Tough feat, and being a Ghostslayer (so he took half Rite damage and could reroll Blood Maledicts from level 7 onward). He still went unconscious at least once every adventuring day, despite 19AC and co-tanking with a Bear Totem Barbarian.

You’re right that dipping Fighter for Second Wind lets you heal a bunch of the damage you’ve done to yourself, but multiclassing is an optional rule. The game is not balanced around multiclassing any more than it is around flanking. Many games allow multiclassing, true, but many others do not, so new classes/subclasses should not be balanced around the assumption that you can always multiclass to shore up your weaknesses.

Your math in the reddit thread is interesting and useful, if flawed. Admittedly a more accurate simulation still shows that, on...See more
Customer avatar
Michael W April 03, 2020 9:07 pm UTC
PURCHASER
Higher than average HP rolls won't save you if you're trying to be a tank whilst not a barbarian (since it seems you roll quite well to hit the players, something that happens when I DM too annoyingly). It also sounds like they either weren't getting healed by the party's support or were regularly taking on more than they should. You'd know better what the reasons are, although if I was that guy I'd have gone Lycan because you basically get rage which would make tanking much easier.

True, although the example was mainly intending to demonstrate how easy it is to trivialise the cost. The main healing would otherwise come from the party's support player giving you healing after you've taken a hit (or before if you're in desperate need of full HP).

It may be a tangent, but how was my maths flawed? I'm always eager to improve calculations for this stuff, how'd you do your more accurate simulation? True about class abilities, but in the case of this one you can gain a benefit equal to (and...See more
Customer avatar
Samuel B April 03, 2020 11:05 pm UTC
PURCHASER
Lycan would’ve been a better tank; the unfortunate complication with that was that the campaign was set on Innistrad so the social ramifications would’ve far outstripped the combat benefits.

Regarding the math:

1) Your average damage per attack numbers are off. Since there’s a 5% chance of any given attack dealing double damage, that has to be taken into account. It’s a small difference (a goblin’s average damage per attack goes from 5.5 to 5.675), but a statistically significant one.

2) I’d argue that your approach to initiative doesn’t give an accurate picture. You built your analysis on the assumption that, because the Blood Hunter has a higher average initiative, she always goes first. This works out ok for single creatures (not great, but the impact is smaller), but with multiple creatures it falls out of alignment due to stacking odds. The more enemies there are, the lower the odds that you’ll beat all of them on initiative. Your goblin encounter,...See more
Customer avatar
Michael W April 04, 2020 2:05 am UTC
PURCHASER
Fair, although considering that nothing in the Blood Hunter requires concentration (in terms of Rites/Curses) you could go Ghostslayer and take a level of Barbarian for rage to be more tanky; that way you avoid the social ramifications.

Ah that is something I missed! That'd make the first scenario end with the Blood Hunter on 5.5825 HP using Crimson Rite and the non-Crimson Rite example ends the third turn on 0.1375 HP before dying on the same turn.

I'm not sure how you'd calculate the percentages for who's likely to place where in initiative but I'd wager the average puts the Blood Hunter in the middle of the Goblins. If so it plays out similar to the example I posted, with the Blood Hunter killing the two slower Goblins on turns 1 & 2, it takes two Goblin's worth of damage on turn 3 making its HP 3.59625 and it finished the end of turn 4 with all the Goblins dead and 1.61 HP. So if your only going to be slower than 3 or more goblins 27.6% of the time (the amount required to kill...See more
Customer avatar
Samuel B April 04, 2020 4:27 am UTC
PURCHASER
For the initiative calculations, first you need to know the odds that the Blood Hunter will win initiative against a single goblin. There’s probably an equation to speed up the process, but it’s been over 15 years since I studied this stuff so I couldn’t remember and did it the slow way in excel.

I made a column with all the values that the BH could roll on initiative (4-23). I made another column with all the values that a goblin could roll on initiative (3-22). I then made a column calculating the probability that the BH will roll higher than the goblin if the BH rolls the value in column 1…Ah. I just noticed a flaw in my math too. I calculated the probability that the BH would roll higher than the goblin for each possible initiative roll, but the BH beats the goblin on tiebreakers as well. I should’ve calculated the odds that the BH would roll equal to or greater than. Apologies, I’ll recalculate. Anyway, as an example, the odds that the BH will win initiative if he rolls...See more
Customer avatar
Michael W April 04, 2020 4:35 pm UTC
PURCHASER
Aye I had a similar issue with it being a decade since I studied this stuff. Thanks for going over all the maths for this.

As for whether or not the probability is higher than other classes? If you take each to not spend any resources (spells, abilities, etc) in the same manner the Blood Hunter doesn't (health isn't the same as replenishment is easier) then I'd wager the Rogue's chances would be less, the Fighter, Paladin and Ranger would have similar results to not using a Crimson Rite if going sword + board but maybe slightly more success if using a great weapon (although they'd get hit more easily too), a Quarterstaff-using Monk could match damage but would have the same AC issue as the Fighter/Paladin/Ranger, so the Barbarian's likely your best bet but even then it'd only do better by using its Rage resource otherwise it's in a similar (but better) position to a great weapon Fighter/Paladin thanks to its bigger hit die.
Customer avatar
Samuel B April 04, 2020 7:35 pm UTC
PURCHASER
You’re welcome, it’s been a pleasure stretching old mental muscles. And thank you for being interested in going over all this.

“If you take each to not spend any resources (spells, abilities, etc) in the same manner the Blood Hunter doesn't (health isn't the same as replenishment is easier)”

I think this here is the greatest difference in our respective mindsets. Given that Crimson Rite is a core Blood Hunter class feature, I don’t assume that other classes aren’t allowed to use theirs when comparing the two. I don’t exactly agree with the idea that HP is easier to replenish. Recovering health costs you some of your resource pool, whether that’s spell slots or HD (which I’d argue are actually part of your HP since they can’t be used for anything else). If you use spell slots, that introduces an opportunity cost: does a 1st level Cure Wounds, on average, increase party survivability more than a 1st level Guiding Bolt? If the DM gives you access to lots of healing...See more
Customer avatar
Michael W April 04, 2020 11:23 pm UTC
PURCHASER
You're welcome too, it has been good fun.

A fair set of points, although my mindset stems from HP being easier to replenish because as a front-line character you're one of the top priorities to receive healing (spells/potions/etc) from the rest of the party (or their own supply) which is something other resources (long/short rest recharge, etc) don't get. I'd say the Blood Curses are the closer comparison to a class resource since its number of uses is limited in the same way as other class' resources.

By all means, I'm intrigued to see how it all works out!
See 16 more
Browse Categories
 Follow Your Favorites!
NotificationsSign in to get custom notifications of new products!











Product Information
Adamantine seller
Community Content
Author(s)
Rules Edition(s)
Pages
12
Format
Original electronic
Scanned image
These products were created by scanning an original printed edition. Most older books are in scanned image format because original digital layout files never existed or were no longer available from the publisher.

For PDF download editions, each page has been run through Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software to attempt to decipher the printed text. The result of this OCR process is placed invisibly behind the picture of each scanned page, to allow for text searching. However, any text in a given book set on a graphical background or in handwritten fonts would most likely not be picked up by the OCR software, and is therefore not searchable. Also, a few larger books may be resampled to fit into the system, and may not have this searchable text background.

For printed books, we have performed high-resolution scans of an original hardcopy of the book. We essentially digitally re-master the book. Unfortunately, the resulting quality of these books is not as high. It's the problem of making a copy of a copy. The text is fine for reading, but illustration work starts to run dark, pixellating and/or losing shades of grey. Moiré patterns may develop in photos. We mark clearly which print titles come from scanned image books so that you can make an informed purchase decision about the quality of what you will receive.
Original electronic format
These ebooks were created from the original electronic layout files, and therefore are fully text searchable. Also, their file size tends to be smaller than scanned image books. Most newer books are in the original electronic format. Both download and print editions of such books should be high quality.
File Last Updated:
February 11, 2020
This title was added to our catalog on January 27, 2020.