Gunslinger

Never mind I learned to read.

I think that the layout of the product may be introducing a lot of unintended confusion. The chapter on firearms contains a number of limitations that the class itself is designed around working with, so it might be beneficial to dive deep into a second look at that material and consider how that impacts your assessment. This product was released several years ago, so I'm sure a thorough review is well overdue. However, actual gameplay experience during that time hasn't revealed any significant issues that have gone unaddressed.

I appreciate you taking the time to voice your concern and regret that at the moment I don't quite have the time to work on a resolution.

I dont see how someone could create something like this with the expectation of DMs allowing it.... then i read all these reviews praising the clas, XXX?!

Here's a some things this class grants:

-A ludicrously over powered version of the spell command that can be used infinitely without recharging

- sneak attack that uses d10s instead of d6s and can be used at any time

- magic weapon damage

- the ability to to insta-kill something that has less than 1/4 health

- ludicrously overpowered battle master maneuvers that have no recharge (one of which is a better version of the monk's stunning strike)

- a limited version of action surge

- uncanny dodge

- evasion

- the half-orc's relentless endurance

- and a version of power word kill that recharges on a short rest.

Thanks again for the feedback. I attempted to speak to your concerns in the review you left for this product. I doubt it will overcome most of your concerns, but I wanted to at the very least make sure that you were aware that you had been heard and your feedback considered. It will likely be some time before any changes would be made to this product, regrettably.

Hi Cody!
Thanks again for catching these tiny inconsistencies. I've corrected the document to show the arquebus as the starting weapon. I'm sure the original reference was stale, left in from a time before I had solidified firearm rarity and the details on the weapons table.

I'm certainly not opposed to doing so. They were intentionally set higher because of the infrequency of their use. I didn't want a class designed to be the "best" at shooting things to have low odds of dealing damage with their firearms and for a while, they only have one chance in a fight to even try hitting. It is definitely part of my perspective, which comes out of a frustration with the common ways that firearms are designed in games: they're either such a powerful option that everyone wants one, or they're no better than other weapons. It certainly wasn't easy trying to find a balance between those two extremes. Have you experienced any issues from the high DCs in gameplay?

They do not. It was a deliberate design decision that reflects a particular perspective on firearms (specifically the accuracy of early firearms) coupled with moving firearms in a direction that has them sharing more in common with the design of magic items than with actual weapons. You're free to change it, but it seems to work well within the context of the firearms available and the features of my version of the Gunslinger.

how are critical hits supposed to work then, cause in the how firearms work section it says that against adjacent targets they crit on 18-20 but that sounds like an attack roll. furthermore by the rules in the phb only attack rolls get critical hits/fails so if the saving throws of firearms are supposed to crit it should be explicitly stated to avoid confusion. also the hand cannon is listed in the table as a long arm but described as a pistol and there's no uncommon pistol in the table. additionally how does a gun nuts fully automatic weapon interact with extra attack the way its worded extra attack makes part of it obsolete. finally there are some terms which I'm guessing are artifacts from previous versions like the bandolier using a move action which don't exist and implicit threat mentioning charisma (diplomacy) which isn't a skill.

That's obviously an interaction that I forgot to correct as the class evolved. Give me a few days and I'll release an update that fixes the issue. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I think I have resolved all of those issues. I really appreciate the feedback.

Looks good. Two more things though, the feature Grit refers to critical hits with a firearm as a recharge condition, but there's no guidelines for criticals when firing beyond point-blank range. And the term critical should be present in the point-blank range entry or it wont recharge Grit.

Modified the recharge conditions on Grit to reference point-blank damage instead of criticals.

I'm in the process of creating some new content and I'm doing editorial and other review to older works like this, so I'll definitely keep this in mind. The increased power is intentional though. The reload mechanic occurs much more slowly than the DMG firearms - they're more like high-tech crossbows in that way. My intent was to emulate a single-shot kill, so I designed my version of these weapons as something more on par with magic wands - high damage output, but limited utility in a single combat. That isn't to say my system is perfect, just that its not entirely crazy.
Thanks for the feedback though. Be on the lookout for update too, it should drop sometime within the next month or so.

Cool, I'll be watching for the update. Yeah I was re-reading this today as I am floating back and forth between Matt Mercers guns ideas and yours. I like what you have here. The reloading mechanics most certainly focus on high damage output but if the combat runs for longer than like 5 rounds or so, basically you will run outta guns to fire, unless your just loaded with pistols and revolvers.

The price ranges really do set the tone, because 10 shots of blackpowder cost 100 gp will really make a player think about weather or not an enemy is worth shooting. At first some of the features made me double take, such as shoot to kill. Then I read it. While powerful, the class feature " shoot to kill " only triggers if.....

you deal double their con score and then only if 1/4th their total hp is reamaining after you deal yours guns damage and then only if their Cr value is lower than your gunslinger class level. So its not broken but I could see this as a minion / lieutenant killer....See more The boss, in most encounters, would always be safe from you as their cr will usually be higher than yours.

So, again I love the content in the book, just not sure which set of firearms rules i want to use. Your right the DMG presents basically breach loading firearms as it only takes on action to reload a firearm, less if you are using Matt Mercers fighter archetype gunslinger.

Some questions.
1. With the DMG firearms, if you have a revolver, or another weapon that has multiple barrels or otherwise is able to fire more than one shot before needing to be reloaded, how many actions does it take to reload? 1 action per barrel?
2. For your guns, I love the additional mechanics and rules, like how a musket can hit an adjacent target if the target saves and are at the greater range for the weapon. However I worry the list of additional mechanics may slow down game play. Your thoughts on this?
3. The Dc for the firearms, I'm assuming that when you fire, it happens like this. You roll your attack, attempting to hit their AC. If you succeed, they get to make a dexterity saving throw. If they fail, they then take the listed damage for the fire arm in addition to whatever class feature and ammunition or whatever else you got going on. If they pass, they take half damage, or no damage at all?

Two suggestions

Instead of it taking 5 minutes to completely reload a firearm or 2 with a kit, how about making it take that many actions? So without a kit 5 actions, and with a kit 2 actions. This would allow more use in combat, but would also remove the gunslinger from helping his or her allies for a minimum of 2 rounds. Having a pc not help the group during an encounter even for 2 rounds can be quite daunting in some situations and would still present a danger, thus kinda balancing it out.

The Gunslingers Menace class feature. Interesting but why start the dc at 9? Almost all class features start at a dc base of 8. If i were to approve this for my game, i would change it to 8, not because 9 is somehow overpowered, but because it doesn't quite fit with 5th editions class mechanics.

This is really terrific feedback and I plan on using it in the revisions I'm working on. Don't be surprised if the DC for Menace changes, because I honestly don't recall the reason I set it at 9 initially. Likely I was looking for a way to make it more reliable compared to the cantrips of other classes.

In regard to your questions:
1. My system is intended to replace the firearms in the DMG, so I consider the two sets to be mutually exclusive - you can use one or the other, but the design of my Gunslinger is predicated on ignoring what is in the DMG and only using what I have presented.
2. Any time you add nuance to a game there is the potential to slow down gameplay. However, the reduced frequency of firearm attacks generally means that things will only slow down occasionally. My firearms were intended to somewhat parallel the design space inhabited by spells and magic items, so thinking of them in those terms helps make sense of some of their complexity. This is also why they have such...See more slow re-load times (unless you're a skilled Gunslinger). I would be open to implementing (and may do so if time permits) a feat that reduces that to something like what you propose.
3. My firearm design does not require attack rolls. In abstracting flintlock weapons, I'm assuming that their inherent inaccuracy means that you aren't aiming them so much as hoping they hit. That's also why firearms don't have a penalty when used without proficiency. When you pick a target for a firearm, they make the Dex save and take damage on a failure. Each firearm has a different DC, with the assumption that a higher DC is the result of better technologies that make the gun more accurate.

My system is dramatically different on purpose. I have never been satisfied by the performance of guns in the tabletop RPGs I've played. They either are far too powerful compared to spells and normal weapons, or they're far too similar to mundane equipment. Striking a balance is incredibly different, but what I came up with was pretty satisfying to me and many of the people I game with. Having your feedback helps calibrate things to other tastes, so I am very appreciative.